Friends;
"Do Tremco, and Garland roofs last twice as long"?
Of course not. Every major manufacturer I've listed (below) offer warranted 20 and 30 year roof systems (labor and material). I know Firestone offers a 30 year puncture, hail, and wind resistance warranty because I've purchased them.
I'm sure the other "Majors" do too. A FRACTION of what the Tremco, Garland, Simon, "Warranties" would cost. A dramatic illustration is shown below.
ANY SCHOOL that purchases a roof through a Purchasing Cooperative, is paying approximately 40% too much. It is a stone cold scam.
NO roofing contractor on earth will go into a competitive bid process with Tremco, Garland, or Simon. Never gonna happen.
Why? Because the contractor isn't ignorant, and neither is the owner. People who own buildings are not (generally speaking) stupid. Are you with me?
Why doesn't WalMart, Target, ProLogis (largest owners of retail space in the world), major Grocery chains, use them if they're so competitive?
I wrote a piece called "Are you smarter than WalMart" if you'd like to use the search box.
I've roofed many properties for these people, and they are well informed.. Not so in the public sector who run it through a committee, board, or some other non-credentialed group.
Frankly, am offended by their arrogance.
Wild claims of material superiority is a sales ploy, and nothing more. I know a company that preys upon retirees here in Florida (mobile homes). Selling them the lowest grade material, for a super premium price.
That is not a joke, and have witnessed it. I'll spare the perpetrators for a moment, unless someone wants me to fully expose the scam. Savaging the elderly exposes deep character flaws like you are imagining right now.
Back to the "Our roofs last twice as long":
According to whom? According to what parameters? What side by side comparison? Show us. I know one manufacturer who actually owns the testing laboratory that certifies their own material. What? They do a lot of public work by the way.
Simply put, the claim is false, and they know it. Garland actually refers to Tremco as a "Bad Apple". Funny, Garland doesn't even make half the material they sell, and neither does Tremco. All claims of "Superior Product" are false, like most blanket claims are.
I'm surprised another manufacture hasn't sued them for such preposterous, unsubstantiated, claims. All I want to see is the data, and will post it here. Don't hold your breath.
Stand by while I eat my delicious sandwich with iced tea (unsweetened). Okay, break time is over, and feel nourished. Back to the incessant rambling.
It's time to put on your thinking caps.
--------------------------------------------------------
Question: If Tremco, and Garland are putting 10 yr. roofs on schools, does that mean a competitors roof only lasts 5 yrs.?
Trying desperately, as I appeal to common sense. Here, I not only say it, but PROVE it in all 162 posts. Public record folks, and I do not share "opinions".
A 20 year roof does not cost twice that of a 10 year roof. The upcharge is minimal, and the roof system much, much, better. The warranty also includes sheet metal flashings!!! Can you believe it?
The game is to purchase from another manufacturer (Cooley, largest private labeler) affix the new label, mark it up 300%, and POWER SELL it to an uninformed administrator.
Sort of like installing a Rolls Royce hood ornament on a $300.00 car.
It has nothing to do with material quality, but everything to do with a predatory sales model.
Decision makers who don't think:
Does anyone want me to believe that Tremco and Garland are Superior to:
I've installed millions of sq. ft., and millions of dollars spent on the manufacturers listed. They are HONORABLE MANUFACTURERS, and honorable people.
Tremco, nor Garland, can COMPETE. Their sales model won't allow it. This is vicious stuff folks. Greasy too.
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2001/11/19/story4.html
From
a technical standpoint, these companies put added ingredients in to make their
product look better," Carrison said. "But if you go back one step and
ask what the building needs, you figure out you are using an eight-cylinder
engine where a six-cylinder will do. My point is, you don't need it.
"Do Tremco, and Garland roofs last twice as long"?
Of course not. Every major manufacturer I've listed (below) offer warranted 20 and 30 year roof systems (labor and material). I know Firestone offers a 30 year puncture, hail, and wind resistance warranty because I've purchased them.
I'm sure the other "Majors" do too. A FRACTION of what the Tremco, Garland, Simon, "Warranties" would cost. A dramatic illustration is shown below.
ANY SCHOOL that purchases a roof through a Purchasing Cooperative, is paying approximately 40% too much. It is a stone cold scam.
NO roofing contractor on earth will go into a competitive bid process with Tremco, Garland, or Simon. Never gonna happen.
Why? Because the contractor isn't ignorant, and neither is the owner. People who own buildings are not (generally speaking) stupid. Are you with me?
Why doesn't WalMart, Target, ProLogis (largest owners of retail space in the world), major Grocery chains, use them if they're so competitive?
I wrote a piece called "Are you smarter than WalMart" if you'd like to use the search box.
I've roofed many properties for these people, and they are well informed.. Not so in the public sector who run it through a committee, board, or some other non-credentialed group.
Frankly, am offended by their arrogance.
Wild claims of material superiority is a sales ploy, and nothing more. I know a company that preys upon retirees here in Florida (mobile homes). Selling them the lowest grade material, for a super premium price.
That is not a joke, and have witnessed it. I'll spare the perpetrators for a moment, unless someone wants me to fully expose the scam. Savaging the elderly exposes deep character flaws like you are imagining right now.
Back to the "Our roofs last twice as long":
According to whom? According to what parameters? What side by side comparison? Show us. I know one manufacturer who actually owns the testing laboratory that certifies their own material. What? They do a lot of public work by the way.
Simply put, the claim is false, and they know it. Garland actually refers to Tremco as a "Bad Apple". Funny, Garland doesn't even make half the material they sell, and neither does Tremco. All claims of "Superior Product" are false, like most blanket claims are.
Stand by while I eat my delicious sandwich with iced tea (unsweetened). Okay, break time is over, and feel nourished. Back to the incessant rambling.
It's time to put on your thinking caps.
--------------------------------------------------------
Question: If Tremco, and Garland are putting 10 yr. roofs on schools, does that mean a competitors roof only lasts 5 yrs.?
Any school District I've ever seen insisted on a 20 yr. warranty, and I wouldn't put a ten year roof on a dog house. Think of all the money saved when a district can leave it in the bank for another 10 years, drawing interest.
Trying desperately, as I appeal to common sense. Here, I not only say it, but PROVE it in all 162 posts. Public record folks, and I do not share "opinions".
A 20 year roof does not cost twice that of a 10 year roof. The upcharge is minimal, and the roof system much, much, better. The warranty also includes sheet metal flashings!!! Can you believe it?
The game is to purchase from another manufacturer (Cooley, largest private labeler) affix the new label, mark it up 300%, and POWER SELL it to an uninformed administrator.
Sort of like installing a Rolls Royce hood ornament on a $300.00 car.
It has nothing to do with material quality, but everything to do with a predatory sales model.
Decision makers who don't think:
We'll excuse Spanky, because he's a baby, and doesn't know better. Administrators, not so much.
I've installed millions of sq. ft., and millions of dollars spent on the manufacturers listed. They are HONORABLE MANUFACTURERS, and honorable people.
Tremco, nor Garland, can COMPETE. Their sales model won't allow it. This is vicious stuff folks. Greasy too.
NOTE: Retired 2003, do not solicit nor accept compensation or personal advancement of any kind.
These are the largest, most available (Locally), most dependable, and most COMPETITIVE Manufacturers on earth. Garland, and Tremco ship from Ohio, so good luck with that. I sure hope your material order isn't short, or facing liquidated damages.
Why do you think the schools went with a "sole source" manufacturer? What real "Benefit" did they receive by eliminating all competition? What did they get for that 25% commission to the salesman?
Why do you think the schools went with a "sole source" manufacturer? What real "Benefit" did they receive by eliminating all competition? What did they get for that 25% commission to the salesman?
If the manufacturers above don't make it, you don't need it.
Please understand I NEVER want Tremco, Garland, Simon, or anyone else to be excluded. They cannot, and will not compete. I'll bet you a whole box of Krispy Kreme doughnuts if proven wrong. You can even look at me while I'm there.
The moment you suggest "competition". they will panic, and seek fertile ground elsewhere. It's even in their manual. Believe it, or not! "Sell by Fear" (below).
Please understand I NEVER want Tremco, Garland, Simon, or anyone else to be excluded. They cannot, and will not compete. I'll bet you a whole box of Krispy Kreme doughnuts if proven wrong. You can even look at me while I'm there.
The moment you suggest "competition". they will panic, and seek fertile ground elsewhere. It's even in their manual. Believe it, or not! "Sell by Fear" (below).
You will note these mainstream manufacturers back their warranties with billions in assets, bonding, etc. (Berkshire Hathaway, Bridgestone Tire). GAF is the largest roofing material manufacturer in North America.
And you get stuck with Tremco, Garland, Simon, and a Purchasing Cooperative? I know these sales pitches forward, and backword, and it's really quite easy to disassemble their claims. I DARE someone to contradict me. "Constructive criticism"may be a better term.
And you get stuck with Tremco, Garland, Simon, and a Purchasing Cooperative? I know these sales pitches forward, and backword, and it's really quite easy to disassemble their claims. I DARE someone to contradict me. "Constructive criticism"may be a better term.
One of the districts decided not to purchase a warranty, and got stung. In 40 years, have roofed hundreds of schools, and never once did I fail to secure a 20 year no dollar limit (labor and material) warranty. Under no circumstance should you ever expect less. Manufacturers above offer the warranty for much less than Tremco, and Garland. Example:
A 25,000 sq. ft. roof will set you back $26,250.00 for a 10 or 15 year roof? I won't trouble you with infinite detail, and we'll save that for another time. You're welcome.
Tremco says so right here:
Tremco specifying 10, and 15 year roofs on public structures is absurd. You aren't buying a "Warranty", but rather a "Service Agreement". If the roof leaks, you are going to pay through the nose. The "Service Agreement" is the holy grail for commissioned salesmen.
A Fair, competitive bid with major material manufacturers above will be around: $4,000.00 (maximum). They will warrant the roof system to be watertight for the term of warranty. Repairs are at NO COST to the owner (taxpayer).
Tremco says so right here:
A Fair, competitive bid with major material manufacturers above will be around: $4,000.00 (maximum). They will warrant the roof system to be watertight for the term of warranty. Repairs are at NO COST to the owner (taxpayer).
Did they check the manufacturer record, or just sit there and fall for a "sales pitch"? Administrators may not give even the slightest hint of favoritism. They are trying to insert administrator "ease", and wipe out fair competition.
10 minutes of research will tell you all about Tremco, but somehow it's too much trouble before coughing up millions of taxpayer dollars. Decimating school maintenance budgets, and local economies.
Manufacturers must COMPETE, and their approved applicators must COMPETE. This is the ONLY way to furnish a truly competitive, hard bid number. We bid to a "Standard", not a manufacturer.
10 minutes of research will tell you all about Tremco, but somehow it's too much trouble before coughing up millions of taxpayer dollars. Decimating school maintenance budgets, and local economies.
Manufacturers must COMPETE, and their approved applicators must COMPETE. This is the ONLY way to furnish a truly competitive, hard bid number. We bid to a "Standard", not a manufacturer.
Tremco is famous for being fined $61,000,000.00 by the DOJ for abusing GSA contracts and now the SEC is suing them for lying. The schools they defrauded got NOTHING.
Brace yourself:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/rpm-international-inc-and-tremco-inc-pay-nearly-61-million-failing-provide-government
Did that sting?
Brace yourself:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/rpm-international-inc-and-tremco-inc-pay-nearly-61-million-failing-provide-government
Did that sting?
Competition must exist between 3-4 manufacturers, and their approved applicators may bid accordingly. You increase the bidding pool by at least 75%. Make sense?
Forever hearing "well, the FM guy wants it that way". Each time I say, the FM guy has absolutely no authority to sole source anything. Against the law in all 50 states.
I am not an administrator any more than they are State Certified Roofing Contractors, or Consultants. they simply are not credentialed, trained, or experienced in Thermal and Moisture Protection,
Division 7 in your spec book. Makes sense doesn't it?
Division 7 in your spec book. Makes sense doesn't it?
Anyway, I'll present the following carnage for your review. The naivete is astounding to any normal human.
Too many Chiefs, and not enough Indians.
This "Sell by fear" memorandum may illustrate both the depravity, and theme of Garland Ind.. Prepare yourself:
Click to enlarge.
Let's move on:
This "Sell by fear" memorandum may illustrate both the depravity, and theme of Garland Ind.. Prepare yourself:
Click to enlarge.
Let's move on:
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2001/11/19/story4.html
The competitive picture
Local
roofing contractors said that two factors account for the difference in price
between the Ohio companies' systems and other roofing systems: limited
competition and features of the roofs.
Some
districts have more contractor options because they use more than one of the
Ohio systems. The Kansas City School District uses all three of the Ohio
manufacturers.
Robert
Young, director of purchasing for Kansas City, Kan., public schools, said the
district just completed a five- to six-year roofing cycle using mostly the
Tremco system.
"We have bid
those roofing projects out and awarded the jobs to multiple contractors,"
Young said. "We have used Tremco pretty extensively and used Hickman on
some others."
High quality or overkill?
Bill
Carrison, president of RTI Consultants Inc. -- an independent roofing
consultant that does work for the Olathe School District -- said the biggest
problem is that school districts are paying for bells and whistles they simply
don't need when installing the higher-priced roofs sold by the Ohio
manufacturers.
"Do
(Tremco, Garland and Hickman) have a better product? Probably. Do you need it?
No."
Tremco
spokesman Carl Zeitz disagreed.
"There
are no bells and whistles on a good roof," Zeitz said. "Our roofs
last. We insist on high-quality details, and quality has a cost.
"They
don't cost more; they last longer. A roof that lasts twice as long as the
average, or typical, roof is less expensive, not more expensive. Our customers
also know they are going to get financial responsibility, integrity,
efficiency, industry experience and prompt service from Tremco because they
always have."
Soukup
said the expected life of the roofs used on Blue Valley schools is 25 to 30
years. That's as much as can reasonably be expected.
"If
they say a roof is going to last longer than 30 years, well ... that's just
kind of silly," Soukup said.
Raising the roof
Grandview
Superintendent Martin has had his fill of dealing with roofing issues.
Howls about the district's use of Tremco systems grew louder
when the district retained a roofing consultant from Tremco.
In addition, the district recently postponed taking bids on a
roofing package. Martin said the district had erred in grouping too many
roofing jobs together, thus making the work a construction project rather than
roofing repair and maintenance.
Missouri law requires districts to advertise the process in the
local paper, as well as different roofing trade publications, to make everyone
aware of the project. Grandview did not do that.
"Roofs are the bane of the education experience,"
Martin said. "They are supposed to be an incidental part of my job, but
instead, they're becoming all-consuming."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm trying as hard as I can to inform you before a reporter shows up at your office. Then comes the State Auditor, and they aren't known for handing out "Trophies".
Don't believe me? Here I am in Oklahoma:
http://www.news9.com/story/15953631/school-districts-accused-of-wasting-tax-dollars
I've offered $10,000.00 of my own money for a public, televised, debate with Tremco, or Garland. No takers in 10 years. Little old me versus a multi-billion dollar firm.
I do not dislike Tremco/Garland/Simon employees. The "Predatory Sales Model" is to blame, not the employees. It's a hard life, and I feel sorry for them.
NOTE: Retired 2003, do not solicit nor accept compensation or personal advancement of any kind.
Thank you for putting up with this tedium, but a lot of people are stealing a lot of money from our schools, and I want it to stop now.
I will help anyone who needs help. Just write:
RobertRSolomon@aol.com
If I can't help you, I know people who can. Very special thanks to Ms. Janet Campbell, and her wonderful site:
"School Roofing Scam"
http://schoolroofingscam.blogspot.com/
Fantastic, and plenty of record. It takes a lot of time, and effort to put together these posts my friends.
Reject negativity in all forms, and always remember to keep looking "UP".
Much Respect.
Robert R. "Ron" Solomon
Public Procurement Analyst
Licensed Contractor
State Certification CCC 1325620
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm trying as hard as I can to inform you before a reporter shows up at your office. Then comes the State Auditor, and they aren't known for handing out "Trophies".
Don't believe me? Here I am in Oklahoma:
http://www.news9.com/story/15953631/school-districts-accused-of-wasting-tax-dollars
I've offered $10,000.00 of my own money for a public, televised, debate with Tremco, or Garland. No takers in 10 years. Little old me versus a multi-billion dollar firm.
I do not dislike Tremco/Garland/Simon employees. The "Predatory Sales Model" is to blame, not the employees. It's a hard life, and I feel sorry for them.
NOTE: Retired 2003, do not solicit nor accept compensation or personal advancement of any kind.
Thank you for putting up with this tedium, but a lot of people are stealing a lot of money from our schools, and I want it to stop now.
I will help anyone who needs help. Just write:
RobertRSolomon@aol.com
If I can't help you, I know people who can. Very special thanks to Ms. Janet Campbell, and her wonderful site:
"School Roofing Scam"
http://schoolroofingscam.blogspot.com/
Fantastic, and plenty of record. It takes a lot of time, and effort to put together these posts my friends.
Reject negativity in all forms, and always remember to keep looking "UP".
Much Respect.
Robert R. "Ron" Solomon
Public Procurement Analyst
Licensed Contractor
State Certification CCC 1325620
Licensed Consultant
